Alan Collett Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Having seen a number of posts on this forum (and others) since the weekend expo in London it perplexes me why so many employers persist in looking at the subclass 457 visa as a means of sponsoring individuals when there are more attractive visa permanent residency visa outcomes available - ie the Employer Nomination Scheme and the Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme. Why would an individual uproot him/herself (plus - usually - family) with no certainty of a permanent residency visa at the end of the day? I appreciate there are tax benefits available to 457 visaholders, but this doesn't seem to be a reason that is being cited. Comments appreciated from those who attended the expos. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fatpom Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Having seen a number of posts on this forum (and others) since the weekend expo in London it perplexes me why so many employers persist in looking at the subclass 457 visa as a means of sponsoring individuals when there are more attractive visa permanent residency visa outcomes available - ie the Employer Nomination Scheme and the Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme. Why would an individual uproot him/herself (plus - usually - family) with no certainty of a permanent residency visa at the end of the day? I appreciate there are tax benefits available to 457 visaholders, but this doesn't seem to be a reason that is being cited. Comments appreciated from those who attended the expos. Best regards. A multi-national I was working for several years ago sent a mgr over to London to recruit engineers on 457 visa's. I heard that the Gov put the company up to it because they were complaining that they couldn't get engineers... of course don't know for sure if its true about the gov involvement or even which gov it was. I've also heard that the Gov likes temp working visas because it gets skilled people for free without being saddled with the end of life costs associated with PR. This makes sense to me if they can get x thousand 457 visas on a rolling basis with only a certain percentage eventually applying for PR then there's a net gain in skilled guest workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shariliz Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Alan So annoying; I know from personal experience how annoying this is! We came over on a 457 and would discourage anyone from going on it if you can go for the PR ones!! Far better to wait that bit longer though the process has prob changed again since we went through it!! The 'draw' of the 457 when we applied- 3 years ago now- was that it was purported as a 'quick' visa, cheaper and we needed less cash when we got here. (i.e. we could get here quicker!!). From my bosses POV, they said it's because- and, prepare yourself, I quote "...if you're rubbish, we don't want to feel obliged to 'stick with you'..." (NOT that that applies in my case because I'm just too darned good at my job!!). Yup, that's true. Actually said to my face! I'm not entirely sure what the tax benefits are either, extra to anyone else i.e. Aussies........maybe I've been fleeced in that regard!! Employers don't always- and aren't obliged to- offer the LAFH etc. Now I'm wondering whether I've missed out! PR every time I'd say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adey Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 We were told it was the quickest route at the time and Migration Agents told us it could take up to 18 months on a skilled visa or permanent visa as the rules were due to change during our application. Our 457 only took 2 to 3 months to be granted and we moved over here in October, however, our employer has said that they will look into sponsoring us for a permanent visa when OH has been employed six months. We would like to go permanent just to make us feel more secure and not have the worry that if the employer doesn't like you then its bye bye Australia unless you can quickly find another sponsor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 As I have said already on other threads, the irony is that 457 visa applications are taking longer to process in some business centres than ENS or RSMS applications ... For ENS and RSMS applications we lodge the nomination and visa applications together - in Parramatta (Sydney) our ENS applications have been assessed in 4 weeks. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Hi All Please see this thread: http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/jobs-careers/31654-wanted-diesel-motor-mechanics-parts-interpreters-truck-truck-salespersons.html Cheryl says that the employer specifically wants to offer only 457 visas to start with because the jobs are not based near a big city, so he is not sure whether people will want to stay either with him (or necessarily even stay in Oz, I suppose.) Alan - if everyone else is confused as I am about when a 457 is the only route and when PR immediately via ENS or RSMS might be possible instead, it would be no end of help if you could either point us to an article that you have already written about this or if there isn't one, perhaps write a new one? Also, are you able to give timescale comparisons for all 3 options because I frequently hear that the 457 visa is supposed to be processed much faster than the other two? Why do all the hospitals seem to offer nurses 457 visas to start with? It could be that people's perceptions of processing times may not be accurate? Many thanks Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shariliz Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 For ENS and RSMS applications we lodge the nomination and visa applications together - in Parramatta (Sydney) our ENS applications have been assessed in 4 weeks. quote] :arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh: We're still waiting for our RSMS, lodged in Nov 07 direct and by hand to Adelaide!!!!!! And that was nomination and visa appns together as it was "supposed to be quicker this way". So annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Gill, I will prepare a news article in the coming days on this subject - I think it might be timely. In recent months we have have spent some time discussing employer sponsored migration pathways with representatives of State and Local Governments. To be open with you, I have found their knowledge of what is do-able poor (to be generous). There is little understanding of the visa opportunities that would allow employers to market themselves to intending migrants, and yet these people are funded by the taxpayer. I have recently had cases where a Regional Certifying Body asserted that Labour Market Testing was still required in the context of RSMS applications "as we have been advised by the Department of Immigration." LMT was abolished as a visa requirement several years ago. Another State Government had signed off on a RSMS nomination, told us it was still in progress, and 10 weeks after signing off on the nomination the same person who advised us the nomination was still undecided advised us it had in fact been signed off - with no apology. I could go further, and regale you with more tales of the downright incompetent, but I ought not do so on a public forum. And where do employers turn when they seek advice on where to go to fill their skilled vacancies? Often to these same people. It makes me very angry, I can assure you, and we are doing what we can with our relatively limited resources to build a network so employers can take some competent advice. I would prefer that our representative body (the MIA) also took some initiatives in this area, but they appear to have better things to do ... Onwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 For ENS and RSMS applications we lodge the nomination and visa applications together - in Parramatta (Sydney) our ENS applications have been assessed in 4 weeks. quote] :arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh: We're still waiting for our RSMS, lodged in Nov 07 direct and by hand to Adelaide!!!!!! And that was nomination and visa appns together as it was "supposed to be quicker this way". So annoying. What reason have you been given for the delay? It is quite possible staff in the Adelaide Business Centre are being diverted to the Skilled Processing Centre ... Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cellefrouin Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 eekkk! (hides behind fridge!) Is anyone else on here just a little bit scared of Alan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Why? I'm a happy glass half full kinda guy ... :-) :-) ... albeit one who should probably spend less time on discussion forums! Best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin'n'dawn Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 We applied for a 134 visa (permanent) in may 07 ,OH was asking around about the jobs and was asked to apply now, so we did after a few emails saying we hadn't got our visa yet. Anyway to cut a long story short we came out on a 457 as they wanted us here 8 weeks after arriving our permanent visa was ready to be granted so we ran around like headless chucks arranging flights etc. Before we wnet OH went to see a woman at the SWDC and she enquire why they were only handing out 457 when they could give out the others,apparently they are not really aware of the other options of visas. If they had known we might have saved a lot of money and time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Seriously though, it concerns me that employers may be "exploiting" (maybe innocently) the desire on the part of many to move to Australia and are offering a visa pathway that can be far from ideal. It is fair enough if all avenues and consequences are considered by employer and employee, but I sense they aren't. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cellefrouin Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I agree...we are all just so desperate to get over to OZ we overlook the basics. I will definately be doing my homework on the 457 Visa issue. Your advice is much appreciated Alan....and I was only joking about you being scary (he! he!) Caroline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fatpom Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Migrant workers on 457 visas appear to be getting a better deal than expected. They are earning an average of $15K more than their Australian counterparts it says. Migrant workers scoring top pay | The Australian Whilst still suspicious of the original intent of the 457 if you just want to do a 4 stint in another country with the possibility of staying on (try before you buy) then a 457 seems to be a win-win for both the Australian economy and the individual migrant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I think it probably boils down to the fact that an employer offering a 457 will get someone for 2 years - where if they offer PR I'm assuming but don't know - that the employee could say thanks very much mate for getting me in Oz - now I'm off down the road 'cos they're offering more money. Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Noted Ali, but employers can introduce financial disincentives into an employment contract such that an ENS or RSMS sponsored employee can be required to reimburse costs if they leave within a specified timeframe. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fatpom Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I think it probably boils down to the fact that an employer offering a 457 will get someone for 2 years - where if they offer PR I'm assuming but don't know - that the employee could say thanks very much mate for getting me in Oz - now I'm off down the road 'cos they're offering more money. Ali A 457 visa holder can do the same. Of the six who started at my place three did exactly that within 3 months of arriving because the job simply wasn't what they'd been told it was. Two went back home and one stayed because they offered him a promotion to do so. :smile: The company was a bit peevish about it for the first bloke by deliberately slowing the visa transfer process down but it made the difference of only 2-3 weeks anyway. All you have to do is find a new job first which will take you on with a 457 and then process the paperwork with immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leanneandmark Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 We are waiting for (hopefully) future employer to let us know what visa route they go down. So if they say 457... are we better of sticking with the SIR?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 So what is the best route to go down then? Perhaps a good thread would be a pro's and cons of the visas ... mmmm you'd be pretty good at that Alan lol Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Hi All I suspect that Alan has hit the nail on the head. It is easy enough to see how the scenario described by Alan develops. Employer desperate for staff: asks a State Govt official or asks in local DIAC office. Nobody in either place has any real clue so misleading and apparently also downright inaccurate information is provided. Employee also doesn't know what the score is with the different skilled visas (which are a complete maze to me as well.) Meanwhile the Aussie Press and the forums are full of references to the buzz-phrase "457 visa" whereas even those of us who have (a) heard of RSMS (for instance) and (b) have tried to understand what the DIAC website's description of them is supposed to mean end up thinking, "God knows what this gibberish is about but everyone else seems to think that the 457 visa is the way forward. Presumably everyone else understands what all this is about...." I suspect that the 457 visa becomes the "default option" simply because of its fame (or notoriety) much of the time. I've tried to get to grips with how, when and why a 457 visa might be converted to an ENS or RSMS visa (or the 457 stage by-passed.) One thinks one understands one bit. One moves on to the next bit. That is baffling and by then one cannot remember what the first bit said anyway. I'm quite tenacious with this sort of information but I end up thinking, "I have not got the faintest idea about this. Ask an Agent." The DIAC website, at times, is worse than trying to look for a needle in a haystack. I saw a post by Welshtone a few days ago in which Welshtone explained to a brickie of over 50 with no formal qualifications what his visa options might be. Tony mentioned both ENS and RSMS visas and at the time, it all seemed to make perfect sense. But I can't remember what he said now, so I could not have understood it as well as I thought I did at the time. If I can't remember something it is a sure sign that I didn't really understand what I was told! I'm sure that I am not alone in this sort of confusion!!! Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edinburger Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Lots of people come over on 457 if they aren't planning to stay longer than a couple of years. It was perfect for me as it gives me greta flexability, it didn't cost me a penny and it took less than 4 weeks to organise. If I do go for PR at some point then the company sponsoring me pays for the whole thing and handles the entire application process for me. If things go pear shaped and they fire me or make me redundant then they have to pay for my repatriation tot he UK. It also means I'm only paying the equivalent of 20% tax due to the LAFHA. Couldn't be better really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leanneandmark Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I think your right there Gill, .....your certainly not the only person to be slightly confused!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leanneandmark Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Alan, what would you advise...457 OR SIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 It all depends. I wouldn't want to give categoric advice of such importance on a general forum, and without knowing your personal circumstances. As a rule - go for the visa that will most probably give you a permanent residency outcome. Assuming you want such an outcome of course. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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